The ultimate insiders’ outsider: Irish News Interview with Sue Gray

Irish News, Belfast, April 5th, 2025

PROFILE by Tom Kelly

As she takes up a new role in the House of Lords, Tom Kelly speaks to Sue Gray about growing up in London, running a pub in Co Down and her rise from dole office clerk to chief of staff for Keir Starmer

At one stage it seemed as if everything at Westminster was “a matter for Sue Gray”

She reached the top echelons of the UK civil service with a career which took her to Number 10 as chief of staff to the prime minister.

A tenacious fixer, problem solver, disruptor and enforcer of standards. The ultimate insiders’ outsider.

At one stage it seemed as if everything at Westminster was “a matter for Sue Gray”.

But there was another side too. Her own story in her own voice. And we heard it last week, when the newly-created Baroness Gray of Tottenham rose in the House of Lords to make a widely-anticipated speech.

Her words were simple, emotional, direct; peppered with self-deprecating humour.

She could have used this opportunity, like Mark Antony at the funeral of Caesar, to settle a few scores but that’s not her way.

Despite ennoblement, the lady still prefers to be simply known as Sue.

Backgound

Her maiden speech spoke much to her background and particularly of her parents.

They were both Irish immigrants – one from Fermanagh, the other from Waterford. Her father, Leo, was a furniture salesman and her mother, Anastasia (known as both Mary or Cissie to the wider family, continuing that quirky Irish tradition of using a non-given name), was a barmaid.

As children, Sue recalls that she and her brother much preferred their mum’s first job in a sweet shop.

Like many London Irish, they were surrounded by an extended family of aunts, uncles and cousins. They lived in each others’ ear.

Sue’s parents lived in a couple of rented flats in Tottenham, until eventually ending up in the shadow of the old White Hart Lane stadium. There were no silver spoons in their home but spades of love and laughter.

“My parents were proud to be Irish and they came to North London in an era which was not the easiest for the Irish community. But they fully embraced life in Britain by hard work, providing for the family and creating a nurturing home.

“We were surrounded by a big extended Irish family. Weekends spent with them were brilliant, full of craic, singing and catch-ups. The highlight was going to my aunt’s pub, it seemed so grand and large to us kids.”

Sue doesn’t have rose-tinted glasses about the past – they were hard years, but character forming.

“I can’t remember a time when my father was not working on at least two jobs. It was tough. My mother worked shifts in a bar to balance home life with child-rearing. They instilled in us a strong work ethic built on respect for others, a sense of obligation to community and fairness. It was a trait in other Irish immigrant families too.”

And life as she and her brother knew it ended abruptly in October 1975 when their father suddenly died. Not only was he the breadwinner, he was also the anchor around much of family life.

Sue remembers it all too well. “It was a devastating blow. One thinks of parents – especially fathers – as being indestructible and going on forever. Sadly for us that was not to be the case. Dad was central to our lives. There was no question of me going to university. As he would have said, ‘needs must’.

Life learning experience

“My mother was struggling to cope and I made the decision to take a job in the civil service. It was the most junior grade in a Jobs and Benefits office. This was very much on the front line serving those most in need.

“Many people were angry but most were frustrated. I learned a lot from that period – not least that the primary purpose of any public service is to serve the public. People deserve dignity and respect from government agencies, especially when seeking help or work. I hope I’ve embedded that experience throughout my entire career.”

During her maiden speech, Sue mentioned her mother’s suicide some years after the death of her father, her voice cracking and tears seeping from behind her glasses.

Poets often say that pain travels through time. Rose Kennedy, the matriarch of the ill-fated Kennedy clan, agrees, saying: “It has been said that time heals all wounds. I don’t agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue, and the pain lessens but is never gone.”

Sue’s honesty in opening up a painful memory in such a public way, and after so many years, was no doubt cathartic but also a reminder that most people have vulnerabilities and may carry unresolved hurt.

Wider family became even more important for the Gray siblings after their mother’s death and Sue singles out the significant role her Waterford-based maternal grandfather, John Walsh, played in her life.

And in applying for the permitted career break in the civil service, she would find herself relocating to Ireland during the Troubles and opening a pub in Derryleckagh near Newry with her husband Bill Conlon, a country singer from Co Down.

“Put it this way, although the civil service encourages its future leaders to get outside experiences in life, travel, education or the private sector, running a small family pub in Co Down during the ‘80s was not exactly what they had in mind.

“What is often overlooked in all the alternative commentary on this period is that my mother worked most of her life in a pub and my aunt also ran a North London bar. My husband also worked in the Irish country music business which revolved around bars. It was his idea to run a pub at home and we jointly decided this was time to give it a go.

“Through this period I got hands-on experience about balancing books, customer service, developing a listening ear and becoming an expert chucker-outer. I have never underestimated the challenges or risks of running a small business, which was certainly useful when I became permanent secretary at the Department of Finance during Covid and SMEs were crying out for government intervention.”

However, returning to London to pick up her career and to start a family was inevitable.

“Running The Cove bar was tough and fun but it was never going to be long term. Although many do it, bringing up a kids in a bar environment was never going to work for us. Today I am very proud of both my sons and the multicultural London environment they grew up in. They are both independent and grounded individuals.”

Eight Prime Ministers

Reflecting on 40 years in the public sector, Sue spanned the tenure of eight prime ministers – Blair, Brown, Cameron, May, Johnson – she investigated the ‘Partygate’ scandal during his premiership – and Truss, Sunak and Starmer.

She touched on the diversity of the administrations, with warm words for Labour veterans such as the late John Prescott, the late Tessa Jowell, along with Harriet Harman and the current intake of deputy prime minister Angela Rayner, Lords Labour leader Angela Smith and chief whip Roy Kennedy, and prisons minister Lord Timpson.

Tory grandees were not ignored either with praise for Theresa May, Francis Maude and Baroness Finn. Unsurprisingly she also recalled with fondness her civil service mentors – Lord Gus O’Donnell and the late Jeremy Heywood.

Speaking about bipartisanship, Sue says: “I have always regarded public service as meaning ‘in the service of all in the national interest for all’. Most politicians get that but nearly of all those who work in the civil and public service get it because they carry out their jobs no matter who is in power. The transition of power following UK elections has always been without disruption mainly because of way the civil service prepare for a change of government.

“The best politicians are wholly committed to national unity when faced with existential crises. They set aside often ideological differences to work pragmatically and sensibly together. I can honestly say, whilst there were some low points, the vast majority of those I worked with from across the political spectrum in Westminster and Stormont were decent, committed and dedicated to public service.”

These days the moniker of being a civil servant carries with it negative connotations because of the language of some. Sue called this out.

“I started work on the junior rung of the civil service ladder and on the front line, which is not the experience of many senior civil servants or leading politicians. Those I worked with then and their successors today are heroic and they do their jobs because they care.

“I cautioned against the use of certain language which may be denigrating or demeaning. Civil servants are not a ‘blob’ or pen pushers – they are motivated individuals who do the best for the public within the budgetary constraints provided. In that, they are no different to other hard-pressed public sector workers in education or healthcare.”

Irresistible opportunity

Taking up an appointment as permanent secretary at Stormont’s Department of Finance in 2018 was an irresistible opportunity.

Devolved government fundamentally changed how the UK was governed. Whitehall hadn’t really adapted to the reality of those changes and relationships with the devolved administrations were often fraught.

Gray saw the post as a chance to opt out of the Whitehall bubble and work at the coalface again.

Going back to work in Northern Ireland was an easy decision – she had maintained a home in Co Down and her children were adults carving out careers.

In her maiden speech, she said: “Working in a five-party mandatory coalition was challenging when compared to the relatively straightforward the Conservative-Lib Dem coalition.

“In Northern Ireland I enjoyed an excellent working relationship with my minister, Conor Murphy, as all senior civil servants do with their respective ministers. It’s our job to deliver, problem solve and break down the silos between departments.

“When Covid occurred, we made a real difference to businesses and community groups on the ground. My colleagues within the department were outstanding and quickly adapted to new forms of working.

“It was certainly an experience which was beneficial when I returned to Whitehall with responsibility for the regions and also at the Department of Communities and Levelling Up. Levelling Up was a great opportunity but unfortunately its potential was never truly realised – particularly in Belfast and Derry.

“I’m a firm believer in devolution both to the nations and to the big city mayors. It needs to be a partnership between them and national government. Everyone wants to see improved public services across the UK, whether in Manchester, Glasgow, Cardiff or Belfast.”

There was a lot of pomp and procedure in becoming a member of the House of Lords, which did not sit easily with the public transport-commuting, no-fuss nature of the now Lady Gray.

Something will turn up

Reflecting on the position, she says: “Being a member of the House of Lords won’t change me. It’s a huge privilege to be able to continue to contribute to society and to use the platform to raise matters which are important to groups and individuals.

“I included Tottenham in my title to recognise of everything I owe to this part of London that I called home and which gave a sense of belonging. I am 100% a Spurs supporter through all their ups and downs but learned to never waver.

“I have an optimistic outlook for Spurs, hoping, like Mr Micawber in David Copperfield, that ‘something will turn up’.

“Everyone needs a sense of belonging and Tottenham and North London gave me that – I want people to simply continue to call me Sue.”

Regrets are not something she dwells on. She a sanguine and pragmatic person. Sometimes things turn out well. Other times, not so well. Life is all about getting up and getting on – and borrowing a much used Irish maxim, she says: “I have always believed what’s for you won’t go past you’.

“Recently, I’ve had some interesting conversations about many issues which align with my interests. I have joined the all-party parliamentary group on Ireland and the Irish in Britain. Anglo-Irish relations is definitely an area of interest.

“London is my physical home but part of me is always with Northern Ireland and Ireland, they are part of my DNA through my parents.

“My emotional roller coaster ride is well and truly over and I am now ready for the next chapter of my life.”

What that chapter is – well that’s a matter for Sue Gray.

A vanishing Stormont senior official and a radical reshaping of NI education system

Sam McBride, Belfast Telegraph, April 5th, 2025

A DUP MINISTER IS PUSHING THROUGH URGENT CHANGES IN HOW TEACHERS TEACH, WHAT THEY TEACH, AND HOW CHILDREN ARE ASSESSED. HOW HE'S DONE THIS SHOWS HOW FEW MINISTERS USE THE POWERS AT THEIR DISPOSAL

A few months ago, one of Stormont's most senior civil servants vanished. No one will say precisely when. No one will say why. Indeed, no one will say anything at all — at least officially.

But what is clear is that Mark Browne is no longer the top official in the Department of Education.

Throughout the Stormont system various rumours have swirled as to what has happened.

None of them involve any suggestion that Browne behaved inappropriately or unethically.

There is nothing to indicate that this case is in any way comparable to that of Paul Priestly, the only permanent secretary in the history of Northern Ireland to have been demoted for misbehaviour.

But trying to get answers leads to silence or excuses. When asked for the most basic information — Browne's current status and whether he's being paid — the Department of Education said it couldn't comment on the issue as it is a matter for human resources.

When the head of the NI Civil Service (NICS), Jayne Brady, was asked under the Freedom of Information Act for correspondence relating to Browne, she refused to release anything; this is “personal data”, apparently.

Rift with Minister

Two well-placed sources have told the Belfast Telegraph that Browne departed due to a rift with Education Minister Paul Givan.

One source said there had never been a heated row between the two men, but that the DUP minister became frustrated by what he saw as a lethargy in how the department was run; instructions he issued weren't, according to the source, being rejected — but Givan didn't think they were being implemented sufficiently.

Given the deep problems in the NICS, such friction isn't unusual. Most ministers muddle through with occasional rows.

Givan wasn't prepared to do this, and specified that he wanted officials who would implement his plans with alacrity. Those plans are unusually radical.

The minister has effectively made clear his dismay at how the department has been running Northern Ireland's schools system for the last decade.

Conflicting figures on school performances

His concern is not without foundation. While Northern Ireland retains an education system with high-performing elements, data shows alarming falls in school performance. The Republic's education system is now clearly and unambiguously producing better outcomes.

Just over a year ago, the Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) — an international league table of how post-primary education systems perform — published its latest results.

The department's press release trumpeted these results under the headline 'NI pupils perform well in mathematics, reading and science in international survey'.

It quoted Browne saying: “It is encouraging that in 2022 NI continued to outperform the majority of education systems in each subject, as our pupils did in 2018.”

Last month, Givan published a major outline for the future of education in Northern Ireland which told a very different story, hinting at his view that the department has been blindly complacent.

It said: “PISA outcomes for 15-year-old pupils tell an important story. Northern Ireland's performance can and should be better. As a system, our performance has stagnated during the past decade whilst that of England and the Republic of Ireland has improved…”

Implicit in this is not just criticism of bureaucrats, but of DUP ministers — the party has held the ministry (punctuated by Stormont's collapses) since 2016.

Four months ago, The Irish News reported that Browne hadn't been at his desk for several weeks and had been replaced on an interim basis by veteran official Ronnie Armour.

Armour remains in that role — but what has been happening beneath him is highly significant.

Hand picked officials

The Belfast Telegraph has been told that Givan himself effectively hand-picked officials who impressed him to fill key positions within the department.

In law, this is likely to be defensible. The Departments (Northern Ireland) Order 1999 gives sweeping presumptive power to ministers, allowing them to “distribute the business of a department among the officers of the department in such manner as he thinks fit”.

But this is not how the civil service typically operates; the minister might be the boss on paper, but the movement of officials around the arteries of government has been jealously guarded by bureaucrats.

When asked for all civil service appointments made directly by the minister, the department said that “the minister has not made any civil service appointments directly”.

In a strict legal sense, that may be true. But the minister has made clear to officials who he wants in certain roles — and has got his way. He is understood to be delighted with the industry of these people — and he needs ferocious industry to enact an unusually grand vision.

Taking Risks

However, there is also a risk here for the DUP. Having established the precedent that ministers can hand-pick civil servants for promotion, those officials could be perceived to be too close to one party to be trusted by other parties.

Or this could lead to future ministers rewarding people on a sectarian basis or for other improper reasons.

But what does Givan actually want to change?

The minister set out his plans in a document — TransformED NI — last month. In short, he aims to alter how teachers teach, what they teach, and how children's learning is assessed.

In some areas he wants to move to more traditional methods, citing international evidence that these deliver better outcomes.

A key element is shifting from a 'skills-based' curriculum in which pupils focus more on problem-solving than learning facts to more of a 'knowledge-based' one in which there is emphasis on acquiring new — and often set — information.

Writing in the News Letter last month, Stranmillis academic William Kitchen said: “Shifts in educational thinking are rarely as monumental as those announced by the Minister for Education this past week.”

Kitchen, who previously was put forward as a TUV candidate, said approvingly that if implemented, the strategy would mean “an entirely new form of education in Northern Ireland”.

The fact that Givan and Kitchen are traditional unionists might have meant that this would have attracted serious controversy, if for no other reason than that in Northern Ireland's zero-sum politics if one side is for something the other side tends to think it should be against it.

Accusations of Bungling

Givan has been criticised in other areas. He stirred controversy after meeting the Loyalist Communities Council — giving the impression that he was interested in what paramilitaries think of education policy.

Bungled answers on this newspaper's revelations about the funding of a pitch for Lisneal school in Londonderry led to sustained criticism.

And his refusal to let Bangor Academy become integrated (because, he said, there weren't enough Catholic pupils to meet the legislative requirement - something likely to be tested in court) was met with dismay by campaigners for integration.

Yet on Givan's reform agenda, there is limited pushback. Partly, this might be because there's nothing in it which has led to accusations of tribalism.

Nor has there been any evidence that Givan, a conservative evangelical Christian, is trying to encourage schools to teach creationism or other ideas which would face intense resistance.

In many ways, what makes his approach so surprising is that it hasn't involved much of what his critics might have expected him to do.

Doing the unexpected

Central to this has been Givan's unusually heavyweight Special Adviser (spad), Richard Bullick. For years, he was at the heart of the modern DUP, helping to reshape it away from Paisleyite fundamentalism into a vehicle for wider unionist opinion.

After an internal clash which remains opaque, the trained barrister left Stormont in 2017 to work in the private sector. When he returned last year, it wasn't, as before, to Stormont Castle.

Rather than being at the heart of government, he found himself in an outpost. Yet being at the centre can mean finding it harder to get things done; unless the DUP and Sinn Fein agree in Stormont Castle, nothing happens.

In a department with one boss rather than two, Bullick — who is now Stormont's most experienced spad — is said to have been crucial to the minister's ability to push things forward.

Professor Tony Gallagher of Queen's University, a veteran academic expert, is sceptical but not dismissive of what is happening.

“The reform proposals do contain many elements that seem to be to be in line with international best practice and that I'm quite pleased to see,” he said.

“There is a concern that this is wrapped up in some very traditional and narrowly focussed ideas… I detect quite a lot of distrust from teachers about what's behind this”.

Massive problems

For years, education has faced massive challenges. The falling number of pupils as the population ages means many schools are already beneath sustainable levels — and population projections mean this will get worse.

Closing schools would be controversial anywhere, but here it is a political nightmare. If the last state school in a town is to close, or the last Catholic school in a town is to close, the decision becomes layered not just with politics but with emotion. In one sense, this is even harder than closing a hospital because no hospital exists to treat those who are of one faith.

Since devolution was restored in 2007 there have been multiple other changes.

There have long been concerns about the performance of boys in the education system. Since 2007, there are considerably fewer male role models in schools. Back then, there were 6,768 male teachers. Today, there are just 4,916 — less than a quarter of all teachers.

The greatest gender balance on the teaching staff is in grammar schools, where 32% of teachers are male. By contrast, men are over-represented in school leadership — 57% of grammar school principals and 50% of non-grammar secondary schools are men.

In 2007, there were 16.8 pupils per teacher across the grant-aided school system. Over the last 18 years, that has risen to 17.4 pupils per teacher. In the Republic, there are just 13.4 pupils per teacher.

Absenteeism - symptom of a system that’s failing

Since the pandemic, drastic increases in truancy have become entrenched.

One school principal in a deprived area said the issue was a crisis which no one is prepared to tackle and some of the poorest pupils are suffering immense educational harm.

Since 2007, unauthorised absences from school have soared. In primary schools, such absences have more than doubled, up from 1.1% to 2.4%. In post-primary schools, they've almost doubled from 2.6% to 4.4%. In special schools, an already higher rate of 3.2% now stands at 5.2%.

This isn't entirely unique to Northern Ireland after the pandemic. But there's no sign of this tailing off. In January, 8.4% of all pupils — 28,276 children — had severe chronic absences from school, meaning they missed more than 20% of their schooling.

There is an issue here with what can only be described as parental stupidity. When several years ago the department conducted polling on what constituted good attendance at school, 6% of parents thought 80% attendance was good, another 8 % thought 85% was good and another 27% thought 90% — the equivalent of not showing up to school for four weeks — was good.

Givan is also grappling with industrial unrest. Having fallen behind pay rates in England, members of some teaching unions have twice voted down pay proposals recommended to them by their own unions.

This isn't just about money. As my colleague Liam Tunney — who spent a decade teaching in England and NI before entering journalism — explained in an article on Monday, this is a job which can involve intense pressure.

He recalled being abused by a parent while that man's daughter sobbed. He's not unique. Between 2022 and 2024, the number of reported assaults on school staff in Northern Ireland almost doubled, from 376 to 698.

What's clear is that the current system has been failing, although Browne can't be blamed as the main person responsible for problems in education because he only arrived in the department as permanent secretary in 2021.

Whether or not Givan's ideas work, he is challenging what appears to have been a failing consensus.

In doing so, he's exposing how rare such ideological rebellion is in Stormont's system where so many ministers largely rubber-stamp what their officials put before them.

There was a time when Sinn Féin was the radical party in charge of education. Now, remarkably, it's the DUP.

Unionists will be the political winners in Trump’s tariff war

PATRICK MURPHY: Opinion

Irish News, April 5th, 2025

“ Sinn Féin and the SDLP want a united Ireland within the EU. Do they really think that a significant number of unionists will now opt to rejoin the EU as part of a declining Irish economy?

IF LLOYD George created the partition of Ireland, Donald Trump may well go down in history as the man who extended its life significantly.

Although Trump’s tariffs are economic in intent, it is now clear that their impact in Ireland will also have major political implications.

While it is generally believed that Trump is deliberately creating a new world economic order, he is unknowingly creating a new political order in Ireland.

Welcome to the Americanisation of the border.

US tariffs will have three main economic impacts here and the consequences of each point in the same direction – the consolidation of partition.

The first impact is that the 20% tariff on goods from the EU will reduce sales of Irish-produced goods to the US.

Irish exports to the US account for one third of all its exports. So even though pharmaceuticals are temporarily not included in that tariff, the Irish government will have a lower level of income from corporation tax.

That will mean less money for public services in the 26 counties, at a time when the Dublin government is already committed to €3 billion annually on defence. So it will not want to spend money on funding the other six counties any time soon.

Right now the Irish government is happy to retain partition.

The second economic impact is that the EU’s response to Trump may well hurt Ireland more than any other EU country.

If that response includes EU tariffs on US technology firms and banks, it will damage the Irish economy significantly, because those businesses pay much of their taxes to Ireland.

That would mean even less revenue for the Dublin government.

Finally, unlike Ireland, Britain can decide its own response to Trump’s tariffs.

Thanks to Brexit, Britain’s tariffs will only be at 10%. Keir Starmer was able to negotiate directly with Trump. Micheál Martin had no such freedom. Ireland must follow EU policy even if it damages its own economy.

Sinn Féin and the SDLP want a united Ireland within the EU. Do they really think that a significant number of unionists will now opt to rejoin the EU as part of a declining Irish economy?

Then there are the additional problems caused by the Windsor Framework.

It means that if the EU imposes retaliatory tariffs on US goods, businesses here will have to pay extra for US imports, but businesses in the rest of the UK will not.

Political origins of problem

This economic disadvantage has its origins in politics.

Following Brexit in 2016, Taoiseach Enda Kenny promised to work closely with Britain and Stormont in “the same spirit of partnership which has underpinned the peace process”.

He gave his civil servants instructions to work with their British counterparts to devise a system of electronic tracking for the movement of goods across an open border.

However, when Leo Varadkar became taoiseach in 2017, he reversed that policy. He decided (presumably on EU bidding) that Britain should be punished for Brexit.

The Dublin media and northern nationalists cheered them all the way in a wonderful outburst of what they said was patriotism against the “little Englanders”.

Mary Lou McDonald invited EU leaders to knock down polystyrene blocks representing the border.

Those same EU leaders now appear intent on sacrificing Ireland’s economic interests in favour of Germany’s. (Always remember to choose your friends carefully.)

Wearing the Blue Jersey

This week Tánaiste Simon Harris said that Ireland would have to “wear the blue jersey”, meaning backing any EU policy, however damaging to Ireland. Will the Irish ever learn?

Nationalists’ obsession with a united Irish constitution rather than a united Irish people has led them to make short-term decisions based on opportunism.

Fine Gael and northern nationalists wrapped the green flag around themselves to attack Britain on the EU’s behalf. That pushed the unity of Irish people further away than ever.

The traditional republican argument for Irish unity was based on the concept of the Irish nation of Protestant, Catholic and Dissenter.

However, in 1998, Sinn Féin decided only the Catholics were Irish. So instead they said the argument for Irish unity lay in economics.

In fairness they could not have been expected to foresee Donald Trump, but they should have known that changing economic conditions would always risk undermining their economic argument.

There are no economic winners in a tariff war, but there can be political winners.

In the short term, at least, the political winners in this war are the unionists. Try convincing them now that Brexit was a bad idea.

Minister finds £150k for Irish signs but not £5k for pedestrianisation in Cathedral Quarter, says DUP

By Philip Bradfield, News Letter, April 5th, 2025

Sinn Féin’s Infrastructure Minister claims she can’t find £5,000 from a £1.5 billion budget for pedestrianisation in Belfast’s Cathedral Quarter, yet has been able to find £150,000 for Irish signs at Grand Central Station, the DUP has claimed.

The unionist party challenged the minister on the matter the day after Minister Liz Kimmins said she “stands firm” in her decision to replace all English signs in the station with bilingual Irish-English signs, six months after it opened.

Her comments, on Thursday, came as deputy First Minister Emma Little-Pengelly said the move by her ministerial looked and felt “utterly shambolic”.

Sinn Fein minister Ms Kimmins gave the go-ahead for the signage last week, but it has led to a row among Stormont Executive ministers.

Under Stormont rules, ministerial decisions that are deemed significant or controversial must be approved collectively by Executive ministers.